However, isn’t the defining point that “the business is significantly diminished” which effectively gives them license to ensure the survival of the company, taking precedence above everything else ? Click here to read our detailed summary of all UK credit cards which earn Avios. This second element is part of the existing Section 188 letter issued to other parts of British Airways.  It was not in the original Section 188 noticed issued to pilots. Carol Vorderman joins British Airways' call for more female pilots TV personality and qualified pilot, Carol Vorderman is backing our call for more women to become airline pilots. Our calculations suggest that a long-haul pilot with plenty of experience could well reach the £150,000 mark. BA has in fact increased its annual payments to £450m/year from April 2020 until April 2023 (increasing the annual payment from £300m, but shortening the period which was originally 2027). Training - The type rating is included in the FPP. Whatever the unions do or say (whether the slightly more pragmatic pilots’ union or the less pragmatic other unions), they seem to be in denial of the crisis that faces the industry. Maximise your Avios, air miles and hotel points. In BA case, Pilot is a general reference to a role and that isn’t going anywhere so BA argument will be showing variance between first officers operating a B787-9 and B787-8. Don’t be a useful idiot for that tiny elite. If you have a pension deficit, it is because you didn’t pay enough into it originally. All rights reserved. It could be, although if BA paid the statutory minimum redundancy pay (and I accept that is a big 'IF') then it would actually be … Learn more on our About page. It is an arbitrary point!! TopBunk: yes your details are right, thanks for that. Always know your employment rights. From the pilots point of view, it’s pretty expensive to make pilots redundant, BA has what 45,000 employees? Above only my personal opinion/view basically thinking aloud. That’s a complete straw man argument. You’ll get to fly to a wide selection of amazing destinations. you should be wholeheartedly supporting what is going on now. @Lady London the pension deficit is still very much a live issue. Thumb rule is redundancy = non existence of a role, defining the role is where the employers legal counsel & HR head use their expertise to make it look absolutely lawful but that’s not right always. On Monday and Tuesday, the majority of BA’s 4,300 pilots based at Heathrow and Gatwick will down tools for the first pilot strike in the airline’s history. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.  Click here to visit our home page for our latest articles on earning and spending your Avios points and click here to see how to earn more Avios this month from offers and promotions. BA has to compete with low cost carriers in Europe with totally different cost bases, and on long haul against ME and Asian carriers again with different costs bases and even US carriers that have been through Chapter 11 and merged to shed legacy costs. LH suffers from it too, but the principal short haul & long haul competitors do not. BALPA said in a statement on Tuesday that it was reassured that BA was working with it to avoid compulsory dismissals, but that redundancies were nevertheless disappointing. As a reminder, there are various ways of earning Avios from UK credit cards. saved. What is the best Virgin Atlantic credit card? This deal meant that there would be temporary pay cuts of 20%, reducing to 8% over two years and zero in the long term. Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting). That would allow the Government to make various adjustments housing ect Location: see roster. British Airways is due to make an unspecified number of pilots redundant according to UK pilot union BALPA, as the airline seeks to reduce its costs to try survive the coronavirus crisis. Fleet- I'm not sure I want to do long haul permanently. Pinch the best bits of each region ? Suspect the reality of who is let go and who stays has already been decided in draft by BA or at least the criteria within any employment law. The compulsory redundancies at BA speaks very loudly. British Airways issued a new Section 188 notice to the union.  This is the official document which outlines proposed redundancies and starts the legally required 45 day consultation period. Salaries are said to range between £26,000 and £120,000, … BA earlier this year announced plans to make up to 1,255 pilots redundant and the union claimed the firm wanted to rehire some of them on a different set of terms and conditions.. A lot of the things you argue for were made possible more by enfranchisement than by unions. This doesn’t always work, of course – BALPA caved in on its pay demands last year and its proposed strikes fizzled out – but it sees itself as representing a wealthier group of people than GMB and Unite and acts accordingly. Thread Starter . They (IAG) have diverted millions from BA into Iberia, Vuelling and Level. And the rest of the teams, engineering, ground staff are all working flat out to meet very difficult targets)Blogs. British Airways was seeking to lose 1,255 of its 4,300 pilots. See a whole year of reward seat availability on one page at SeatSpy.com. The company has benefited from very low interest rates, low fuel prices and an unprecedented rise in air travel. However, in BA’s case, this was not enough to avoid redundancies, and compulsory layoffs were estimated at 270. The British Airline Pilots’ Association (Balpa) voted in favour of industrial action after three days of negotiations over pilot salaries failed to resolve the dispute. There was a discussion over pilots voluntarily joining the furlough scheme (at present, pilots have voluntarily agreed to work for free for one month but are not furloughed) in return for guarantees over job security.  This would represent a substantial drop in income for most pilots. And how would you measure it ? Archive - Posts: 1,268 BA pilot voluntary redundancy. Most big companies also took several years of ‘pension holidays’ whenever the fund was more than the projected liability, totally ignoring the fact that any drop in the market would immediately create a deficit. Middle East - Qatar salary reductions and redundancies - Originally Posted by airbus350captain1 They could have wet-lease those A330 Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies), The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions, Safety, CRM, QA & Emergency Response Planning, Computer/Internet Issues & Troubleshooting. Have all the staff sit at home on full pay waiting to see what happens? Those staff have threatened to go on strike, been on strike or had mass sickies at the worst time for the company and passengers; now the tables are turned. Sadly, any one on the risk of redundancy with less than 2 years of service have no employment rights for unfair dismissal claims except on discrimination grounds. Full employment Works with Four Seasons, Mandarin Oriental, The Ritz Carlton, St Regis and more. The Mail online has the story. It would also be interesting to find out if BA took pension contributions holidays in the past whilst making staff divi up their contributions year on year. Click here to read our detailed summary of all UK credit cards which earn Avios, our latest articles on earning and spending your Avios points, how to earn more Avios this month from offers and promotions, The HfP chat thread – Friday 5th February. Boss of British Airways, Alex Cruz, is currently in the midst of being grilled by a Parliamentary Committee regarding the thousands of redundancies on the table for the airline. The premature end to more than a … In July, BALPA negotiated a deal for British Airways pilots. You’ll be an ambassador for one the world’s most iconic brands. Pay cuts and new rostering agreements. PPRuNe Person. It now looks as if compulsory redundancies could be as low as 200. The airline operates British Airways branded flights out of London City and Edinburgh Airports. @Lady London, I completely understand the employee feelings on the other side of the fence and that’s where ethics and fairness play is required from employer. There is no economic crisis forcing workers to accept huge pay cuts and loss in employment rights. Advertising - Our privacy policy is here. Cost cutting has been savage and both the brand and the product damaged. The airline says it cannot pay due to lack of funds. Similar proposals for mass redundancies, changes to working … Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out. Ahh........... welcome to a world that lets you disconect the autothrottle. I don’t think unions were created back in the day to protect people on six figure salaries. British Airways pilots are being urged to accept a package including pay cuts and job losses in a bid to avoid more redundancies. Regulated and authorised by the Financial Conduct Authority to act as a credit broker (FRN 690573). Privacy Statement - Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract. It is a direct result of a global pandemic that is leading to an economic crisis. Captain Dave Wallsworth shares his awe-inspiring view from the flight deck. Weekends and most major health and safety and employment rights only came about because of unions. RIP.” A British Airways source, however, claimed the crew member was no longer working for the airline after being dismissed last year. British Airways is due to make an unspecified number of pilots redundant according to UK pilot union BALPA, as the airline seeks to reduce its costs to try survive the coronavirus crisis. So what would you do if you were running a company that had lost 95% of its revenues, still carrying huge staff and aircraft leasing/maintenance costs etc. Likewise, for any generally assumed role there is always a possibility of demonstrating a variance. BA has the added problem of its pension deficit that continues to swallow £300m/year a staggering burden. and very little visibility for the future. Photo: Tom Boon – Simple Flying The final number close to 10,000. You may also need A-levels or the equivalent. Cookie Policy - Another example, Bus driver driving a normal 32 seater and double decker are different could be an argument from employer for redundancy reasons. What American Express bonuses are you still eligible for? ), Maximise your frequent flyer miles and hotel points by signing up to our emails. Terms of Service - Is IHG Rewards the best hotel loyalty scheme? The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Do Not Sell My Personal Information -. The factories may be mainly foreign owned – JLR, Nissan, BMW/Mini etc. Anyone who’s spent time in South Africa or Brazil will know how dangerous crazy inequality can be. You actually want to leave the best airline in the world at age 44 unbelieveable. British Airways pilot jobs and payscales. This new Section 188 document had, I believe, two major changes to the original version issued last month: The number of redundancies has been increased from 955 to 1,080 – plus an additional 175 redundancies which had already been proposed as part of a previous efficiency process, The pilots have now been told that, if agreement between BA and BALPA is not made within 45 days (by 18th July), all pilots may be made redundant and British Airways will decide which pilots will be offered new, inferior, contracts to rejoin. BALPA says 72 potential pilot redundancies were notified out of 248, mainly at Edinburgh. Is there nothing in EU employment laws to stop this? This is how it will work, according to a British Airways document sent to pilots: All pilots who remain will take a … Includes job entry requirements, fleet details and employment outlook. I appreciate that it is an extremely stressful time for anyone facing redundancy or a pay cut, particularly when you have a mortgage to pay, children to feed etc. It's up to them, isn't it? Many cards also have generous sign-up bonuses! In a separate statement, Brian Strutton, General Secretary of BALPA, said: “This has seriously undermined our talks which now hang by a thread.  It calls into question whether BA is even capable of conducting industrial relations properly and whether anything they say can be trusted.”. But, before you all jump up and down, think about this……. The pilots have now been told that, if agreement between BA and BALPA is not made within 45 days (by 18th July), all pilots may be made redundant and British Airways will decide which pilots will be offered new, inferior, contracts to rejoin This second element is part of the existing Section 188 letter issued to other parts of British Airways. You refer to offloading chunks of pension, but obviously you can only do that by going bust or paying someone to take it off your hands, the cash cost of which would be immense and probably unaffordable so the pension issue is something that will be a millstone round BA’s neck forever. So if you’re going to blame anything – blame the virus. You can also get generous sign-up bonuses by applying for American Express cards which earn Membership Rewards points, such as: Your best beginner’s card – 20,000 points, FREE for a year & two airport lounge passes Read our full review, 30,000 points and an unbeatable set of travel benefits – for a fee Read our full review. British Airways pilots have voted to accept a deal that will include job losses and pay cuts to avoid a larger number of redundancies, their union has announced. Many of you are missing a couple of points. but they employ a lot of people here. You have the choices at BA. I can only presume you support child labour and race and gender discrimination in the workplace? = �10m p.a. The UK has some of the richest and poorest regions in Western Europe – more unequal than France, Germany, Netherlands etc and it’s getting worse. British Airways is one of the best airlines to fly for in terms of average salaries. Now realise who you are, don't let the B******Ds drive you out,spent most of my flying life as a CLING ON [ex Cambrian] and later as one of the FEW[Flat Earth W. assuming -and this is a massive assumption- we are at the start of a recovery, then even if we ignore that it's likely to be a long and protracted recovery, 100 senior pilots gone - on [say] an average of �100k p.a. The UK has steadily became more and more unequal since the decline of trade unions. Making everybody ‘redundant’ then rehiring is an abuse of process and subvertingbthe law. Especially as the members seem for the most part seem to be getting their information from the press or forums such as this not from their union reps. And where are we as a region ? If you have a small business, we especially recommend Capital On Cap’s Visa card which comes with a generous bonus worth 10,500 Avios: The most generous Avios Visa or Mastercard for a limited company Read our full review, (Want to earn more Avios? You can unsubscribe at any point by clicking the link in the footer of our emails. IAG make me sick, they have destroyed the BA brand and service before this latest calumny. I was actually talking about closed shops, picketing and harassment, pushed from the top down by overpaid union bosses. Top 500 ( or any pilot in BA who requested a 'severance' quote by 5th May) should receive their letter between 15th and 20th May, and anyone wanting to accept the offer, has until May 31st to accept. We could have doubled the going rate, but it would not have done the other local company’s any favours at all, so we tried in other ways, a bit of healthcare, sport, education and also working with local charities. Finally, collective consultation has pros & cons and the success rest with the employee rep’s strength in the employment legislation, operating model of the company and what employer trying to achieve. Continuing implies your consent to this policy. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Best of both, a bit like Thomas cook. Even if long term, sustainable growth occurs, its starting from a much smaller market than at the height of the bubble, and remember that a significant proportion of BA's bottom line came from transatlantic premium pax - and who did they work for? Yes they were: the union bosses! This old timer would return now if it were possible. A list of partners is here. Untrue. We will never sell your email address or use it for anything except sending our newsletters. It is absolutely lawful if they can prove and that’s where the employee rep like Unions should challenge them technically and operationally, I believe GMB and UNITE are doing it. TOP HOTEL BONUS POINTS OFFERS (FEBRUARY 2021), Get exclusive benefits on luxury hotel bookings via HfP, How to get free hotel elite status from UK credit cards. For most cadet and training schemes you will need a minimum of 5 GCSEs at grade A to C (4-9), including Mathematics, English and a Science. According to Glassdoor, the average salary for BA pilot is £88,347 per year. The British Airline Pilots Association (Balpa) said there will be around 270 compulsory redundancies and temporary pay cuts starting at 20% and reducing to 8% over two years. 300 pilots in a non-flying pool funded by the remaining pilots. You agree to our going to blame anything – blame the virus, like the financial crisis will fewer... 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